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Talk:Story : Meeting in the old stone cottage
Rabbits out of idle curiosity -- if she flew in as an owl, how was she carrying a long stick and a bunch of dead rabbits? Sandor carried the stick while Eirlys and Aloysius brought him rabbits one by one. She brought them inside while Sandor presumably tends to the horse. --Jin-yi 18:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC) Longinus arrives - or not By my count Longinus does not arrive until close to midday on the NEXT day (22nd) - if he and Llewellyn push hard. One day to the edge of the forest. One day into the forest and explore a bit at the end (last hour or so). One day to get out of the forest and a mile or two clear. Then a goodly part of the fourth (22nd) day to get to the stone cottage.--202.156.6.67 00:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC) We have a plan that will give Longinus the option to arrive earlier, but it's waiting on some posting from Jeff :) Assuiming everything goes according to plan, and that Longinus can do it, or even wants to. --Tim 00:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC) :OK, but I'm not sure if Longinus will be amenable, so I will hold off posting until I know. --Corbonjnl 02:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC) ::No worries. In the end, it's up to you , and what you feel would be consistent with Longinus' personality. --Tim 12:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC) In-character versus out Given Bedo's blatant insults of her faith and her person, I really can't see Eirlys sticking around to start a covenant. OOC, I can't even think of any halfway-decent excuses for her to stick around. Suggestions? --Jin-yi 22:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC) I can think of a number of possible approaches she could take to this IC issue. She's probably decided that Bedo won't be convinced by her on religious matters, but there are other mages about who she could discuss things with. He's made his position, distasteful as it may be to her, very clear, but he hasn't, and can't, made a decision on behalf of the rest of those present. She has an afternoon and a night before she would have been intending to leave - that must be long enough to ensure that we can find a way that satisfies all the characters involved to a sufficient extent. --OldNick 23:17, 1 August 2006 (UTC) :Suggestions: :1) Conflict is the basis of all drama, and even if she never gets along with Bedo, it can still make for some good stories. :2) I've read and reread Bedo's initial speech, and can't help but to think that Eirlys saw insult where there was none. He spoke of cutting ties to Parens, Eirlys somehow heard a grave insult to paganism. :3) As for Bedo second bit, it's all true: ::a) Has Eirlys identified herself as a priestess before this? I can't seem to locate any place where she did. Even so, every single member, besides Marcus, skipped the service the day before, even when attendance is essentially mandated by law. Marcus would have, but for the necessity of the fulfilling the political aspects of our founding a covenant near Church Stretton. ::b) Eirlys has been exceptionally selfish, including, but not limited to, the destruction of the ward and leaving her hermetic brother behind. I've seen no evidence, aside from the socialization of the first night, where she has worked to be a team member. ::c) Finally, Eirlys has committed to founding the covenant, and it would have been extremely foolish of her to believe that she could simply slip away, regardless of the reason, the day after the founders were together to BEGIN discussing the location. She has taken upon herself a portion of the responsibility for the founding, and her leaving now, even for a week or two, could very easily be seen as a betrayal. :The easiest thing I can see is that she realized the truth of his words (in spite of the venom) (in the middle of the night, prompting a rousing from sleep to apologize). :That said, I do wonder if this covenant is compatible with Eirlys. She might very well be more comfortable in a Merintia heavy covenant. :--Tim 23:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC) ::1) There's conflict, and then there's blatant rudeness. Bedo's actions are the latter of the two. Conflict makes for interesting storytelling, while blatant IC rudeness makes it difficult to come up with any justifiable reasons that the character would stick around. ::2) "I have a religious obligation" was met with "Well, we all have to grow up some time" - which might not sound like an insult to a person not of the religion that's not being taken seriously, but, I believe, would be by a person of that faith. I'm not a religious person and I know it annoys me whenever my best friend tells me I will grow up out of my "science is the only belief I need" mentality, as he sees it the denial of God's existence as a testament to one's spiritual immaturity... I figure if that annoys me, coming from my best friend, then that same mentality about a religion I was very devout about, from an all-but-complete stranger, would be much much worse. ::a) Yes she has-- every time she introduces herself, and Bedo heard it.. From the first thread: "As the door banged shut, the door behind Eirlys opened, and Bedo returned to the room. He stood watching quietly and listening, from just within the threshold." Next paragraph: "I am Eirlys ex Merinita, filia Drystan. Only daughter of Lord Alithas the Bold, Priestess of Cailleach Bheur, and Lady of the Fourth House in the Court of Winter." ::b) Destruction of the ward is something Bedo is unaware of, so that does not justify his insults. Leaving Longinus behind-- which of them is seen as selfish seems as a matter of opinion. For a person from a culture which holds bargains and deals to be sacred, "I don't want to sleep in a Faerie aura" seems a pretty selfish excuse for not making it to a meeting on time. ::c) Define the requirements for "founding." From previous Ars games I've played, here's my take on magi's responsibility to founding their covenants (at least, stuff I've seen done by magi for their required seasons of service to their covenants): * Physically building the place * Inventing spells to protect the covenant, both physically and magically * Investing devices that protect the covenant, or to be used by covenant guards for the protection of the covenant... I guess this goes along with the previous bullet though. * Scribing, scribing, scribing. * Scouting out and trading for summae and tractati ::That's all I can think of offhand, though I admit it's been a while since I've played a weekly Ars campaign and I'm sure I'm forgetting some things. My point here is that I don't see where there'd be a perceived necessity for the presence of a magus who can't build, during the first two weeks when, most likely, nothing's going to happen other than things being built. : If you would prefer that I resign my character from the game, please feel free to be blunt about it. The first I'd heard that any player didn't want the character around was from James, at the point where I offered to use a different character concept, but I was told I could either play Eirlys or not play a magus. --Jin-yi 16:22, 2 August 2006 (UTC) Going through those points one by one, as Bedo's player. 1 - You see it as a character being rude, fine. Clearly someone else reading it doesn't. It's opinion. 2 - is this about the character's reaction or yours? I can see Bedo's reactions as very irritating to Eirlys, but I'd appreciate it if you read what was said, as Tim clearly has. a) Not relevant to Bedo's position. The comments are made on his reactions to her actions, not her claimed status. As Tim pointed out, he has at no point attacked her religion. b) Destruction of the ward - Bedo has at no time referred to it, or acted on it. Leaving someone behind, he has an opinion of it - after all, he knows this type of countryside. c) Requirements for founding - the only one that matters at the moment is being involved in the decisions about where it is to be founded. Bedo is not wanting to saee any mage in the covenant later stamping a little hoof and sayng "I wasn't consulted". Building is just labour. What will happen in the next day or two is decisions. Medieval travel is slow, unpredictable, and dangerous. If the day or two that the decisions will take is too critical for Eirlys's timekeeping, Eirlys has a better than even chance of already having broken her vow. As to whether to keep playing the character - at no time have I said to anyone anything about my opinions of whether Eirlys is a suitable character for this covenant. Even if I had opinions on it I would not do so - it's your character, and your choice how to play her. My writing for Bedo will express Bedo's opinions about her behaviour - although I don't think he's commented anywhere about what some would see as stupidity at the inn. Nick will write Bedo's IC reactions, not his own. I like your style of writing which is very different from mine, there's plenty of space for both in the game. I will not however let my liking for your style curb a character's right to react to and be reacted to by other characters. IC actions have IC consequences. Now - let's find a way for Eirlys to make her contributions to the decisions needed to found the covenant, andf get on with it. --OldNick 17:45, 2 August 2006 (UTC) Starting from the last comment, which is by far the most important: Absolutely not. I do not advocate the removal of any character (or player, for that matter) from the game. If that happens, it’s the choice of the player, the story guide, or both. Every single character brings its own flavor to the table, and all of them can be MADE to work, but I see that you’ve set Eirlys up with a number of rather significant challenges due to both her nature and her personality. I’m concerned that Eirlys’ interactions with others may end up dominating your writing, and ruin your enjoyment. Of course, I wasn’t aware that James had said that, so if you want to stay in the game (as a magus?) you’ll need to come up with a way for Eirlys to work it out. The easiest way in my mind is humility – and you did ask for suggestions. Now, back to the beginning: 1) Rudeness is conflict – I’m sure you have no doubt that this situation could be turned into an interesting sideline that could last. That being said, it really comes down to whatever motivated Eirlys to join the covenant founding in the first place. She wasn’t contacted by Mnemosyne, and did not commit to working in this founding (or did she?), so she is in a rather unique position. I can say as a player though, that storming off and leaving for good would appear awfully childlike. 2) Every one of us has a responsibility to consider the intent of someone’s communication against how we interpret it. It is perfectly clear to mean that Bedo was neither speaking about one’s faith nor intending insult when he spoke – if I am wrong, he is welcome to correct me. Eirlys is absolutely in the wrong with her reaction. What’s more – Eirlys gave her reason as, “…to collect supplies from Crun Clach and then attend my Lady. I've offered to assist in preparing the Feast. Quite a hectic responsibility, in the midst of an archery tournament, sword dances, and rounders.” She did not make mention of her religious duties outside of "attend my Lady" - which is a very obscure reference at bet. 3) Smaller points a. I had no clue that Cailleach Bheur (or “My Lady” which I can now presume are the same thing), was a religious symbol – I thought it was another faerie. Regardless, her position as a priestess should make her more thick-skined, not less, in regards to how she interpreted his comments. b. Point conceded on the ward, but it makes the action no less selfish. As for leaving him behind – Eirlys agreed to travel with Longinus – why isn’t that just as sacrosanct? c. Being a founding member of a covenant means taking part in the discussions, looking out for your interest as well as the interests of your house. It means leading, to some extent, and working as a team – even closer – a family, the whole time. --Tim 18:10, 2 August 2006 (UTC) What is the air speed velocity of an unladen snowy owl? Whoops. Turns out snowy owls have an average flight speed of 80kmph/50mph. Mapquest.co.uk puts the driving distance from Church Stretton to Campbeltown at just under 400 miles. So even flying overland (the long way around), Eirlys could make it to Crun Clach alone in a single day. Ooops. Even if she's travelling with Sandor and Aloysius, assuming a horse has an average travel speed of 12mph (http://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/info/horsespeedmph.htm) that's 34 hours' travel by horseback, that's still less than four days' ride. I'll revise Eirlys' dialogue to work around my error. Sorry guys. --Jin-yi 23:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC) Rolls and Whatnot James is out on holiday for a couple weeks, and would like us to be to the point of pulsing when he gets back. In the meantime, for any rolls, please go ahead and make them - we trust you with the results :) --Tim 18:03, 24 July 2006 (UTC) Digging A pace should be at least 3 feet? That would give at least 27cubic feet for each moved block, how did you get to 60 cubic feet an hour? --SamuelUser talk:Samuel 06:47, 18 July 2006 (UTC) A pace is usually under three feet. A Roman double pace (the distance from when a heel is raised from the ground until the same heel is placed on the ground - 1000 of these forming a Roman mile) is generally calculated at just under 5' - so a pace would be 2' 6". A block of a pace per edge would be 15.625 cubic feet. I don't know if this makes the calculation work out. --OldNick 07:35, 18 July 2006 (UTC) Exactly. Despite my arguing for a pace of 3' (which works to the advantage of an elementalist :) ), James ruled that a pace is equal to 2.5'. Since I'm on the road this week, I estimated the rooms to be 10'x20'x8' and 10'x30'x8', then I threw in some fluff for the stairway. At a "group" level, we should be able to move 10 paces worth at a time, i.e. 2.5' x 2.5' x 25'. --Tim 13:13, 18 July 2006 (UTC) With 2 minutes per block that ought to be 450 cubic feet per hour without fatigue, still more than 10h. But less than 4h to get the small room ready. That is with Phaedrus working alone. --SamuelUser talk:Samuel 23:08, 18 July 2006 (UTC) True, but the way you reworked the spells, its going to be more than 2 minutes per. I don't think that we need to get exact - just in the ball park to keep the storyguide off our backs....er, I mean, to appease James. Let's figure two days to do the underground ones? --Tim 23:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC) Two days seems reasonable, but maybe we should add some plans for an above ground addition also. We will have a lot of stone to build from and the extra time to place each block in a wall instead of just anywhere on the ground should be worth it. Come to think of it we might want to pull out stone beams to use above windows and for stability. The "one pace cube" is a wolume measure, right? We probably want blocks dimensioned 2.5 x 1.24 x 5, or something when building. (I get this picture of someone looking at the quick new houses and getting the comment "it took us _days_ to build them" as if that is a lot of work...) --SamuelUser talk:Samuel 22:58, 19 July 2006 (UTC) ---- I think you may have figured moving the stone to be more difficult than it needs to be. I can see why you seperated out cutting the stone and moving it (though I personally didn't see a need for that - it does make more sense). Would you explain how you figured the spells, please? Thanks! --Tim 23:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC) Rego Teram baseline says control in a natural way is base 1. Stone adds one magnitude. Stones can be split naturaly, like with a hammer or from age. The stone splitts apart instantly. For moving stones I just grabbed your spell and removed "part" since it was not needed any more. I do not realy see how my reworked spells would take longer? The splitting spell is instantanious and takes minimal effort to cast, thus it can be handled in a "round". The main time needed is for walking the blocks outside. I asumed slightly less than 2 minutes would suffice but we do have to walk back too so we probably need a little more time, but the main time sink should be walking. For the large blocks, 1 extra magnitude gives 10 times the base individual (p113). --SamuelUser talk:Samuel 12:14, 19 July 2006 (UTC) Ah - that makes a lot more sense. The only way they'd take longer is now you are casting two spells instead of one - even though the duration of the first spell is instantaneous, the casting itself still takes part of a minute, right? --Tim 13:48, 19 July 2006 (UTC) Let me echo the sentiments of Maga Mnemosyne and make the observation... "Boys and their toys." :) --Jin-yi 02:26, 20 July 2006 (UTC) (-: Maybe we should have put this in-character instead? :-) --SamuelUser talk:Samuel 06:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC) Although this discussion isn't strictly necessary, I suppose there is an element of fun in playing around with your abilities, finding your limitations, etc. The cottage is becoming an interesting, and detailed location, but I would prefer it if you saved your energy for the covenant. I would hate for you all to get burnt out and bored of construction before we got to it. I'm keen to move on to the pulse, so don't get too side-tracked! :D --219.174.96.49 17:57, 20 July 2006 (UTC) Whereabouts are Eirlys's characters at noon? Hi Eirlys, I want to add to your section, but I'm not sure where you are right now. :D Throw a dog a bone, will you. ;) Thanks, --James 20:01, 11 July 2006 (UTC) :Umm. I dunno. "Over yonder"? --68.127.175.180 03:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC) Hello anonymous. :P Over yonder, it is, then. :) It doesn't matter too much yet. We can sketch in more detail later. --James 15:50, 13 July 2006 (UTC) Story Really tired, so pretty much only added a wakey waky. --James 08:20, 27 June 2006 (UTC) Roles Hi everyone. This thread will center around the magi, rather than the grogs, and is basically just a discussion regarding the Long Mynd. If there are any grogs you would like in this thread, and preferences for who plays those grogs, then please leave a note here. --James 18:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC) Arrival Time Ambrosius and Mnemosyne awake in the cottage. Caer Caradoc arrive in the morning. Hockstow arrive at some time or other? Bedo arrives precisely when he intends to. :D Marcus's arrival Marcus's arrival is fun. The lines of sight from Pole Cottage to the Caer Caradoc are pretty tight over the hill in-between, and I would suspect that while Caer Caradoc is clearly visible from the cottage, due to its shape, looking the other way Pole cottage would just be a very slight dark dip in the line of the hills, just about visible but not distinguishable. Pole Bank - the hill a few hundred yards to the North of the Cottage would be more visible from Caer Caradoc - as a gentle dome shaped hill top, standing slightly clear above th ill line in-between. As someone who's not been up to the cottage before, it might be easier for Marcus to head to Pole Bank, as a high-spot on the ridge line, and from there see the mages at the cottage in its dip to the south. Noted for future reference --JBforMarcus 14:29, 10 August 2006 (UTC)